[MOD] Rules and the consequences: List moderated

["Quindo Ma" <quindo.ma@xxxxxxxxx>]

**Sigh**

I really wish it hadn't had to come this far.
A mistake by a long time member and trusted moderator of the list and what
happens? Instead of acknowledging that Kimber is just human herself, and
makes mistakes like everyone else, we start arguing over a matter that
doesn't belong on this list to begin with.
Yes, the story posted was not the norm. Yes, it was a Buffy / Dawn story.
Yes many will complain that it is incest.

But what some of you seem to not have understood is that we have a
no-tolerance policy when it comes to flames. I asked before for everyone to
calm down, that didn't happen. I asked that points be brought to us
moderators, and to not keep putting oils into the flames, by posting it
onlist. That didn't happen.
I asked to that no more posts be made regarding the thread entire and...
that didn't happen.

To those that followed the thread, and refused to post or those that
followed my requests, I apologize for this measure, but it is the only way I
see to stop those who aren't willing to let the matter drop.

As of now, until further notice, the list is set to moderation status.
That means, that every mail posted, will be checked by a moderator and all
questions you have regarding this thread will be answered privately. The
rest will be passed through.


HD Genscher, I already addressed you in my previous post, but I wish to have
it all together in this mail.

I know you meant well in bringing everyone's attention to this, but it
should have been handled offlist with Kimber and / or the other moderators.
Although, especially when compared to some of the following posts, I have to
thank you for not getting overly aggressive.

misslurker, I can't help but feel that your post was a bit pointless. You
came to defend your hero, which is an honorable thing to do, but you did so
in a fashion that was completely wrong. You attacked HD in a manner that
shouldn't have happened and you continued a thread that might have been
quieted down had you not used such harsh language. As an added point, you
attacked Mad Hamlet, who I haven't seen posting to this thread at all. Yes,
he might seem arrogant, but that doesn't give you the right to flame him
onlist, even if it was hidden (I'm sure us mods aren't the only one who
noticed who you were referring to).

Charlene, I thank you for agreeing with me, but I had made a clear
statement, and asked the thread to be closed. Yet you responded directly to
my mail with a point that has already been made. It was not necessary, and
pointless. I do not wish to discourage you or anyone else from voicing their
opinion, but please refrain from replying to something we have asked to
stop; we usually have our reasons to do so.

Daenerys, your point is very valid, that such problems should be taken care
of offlist. But if there is dissent on the list, especially when it concerns
one of the moderators, we really would like to know about it. We aren't
perfect, and we make mistakes, but we try our best with the responsibility
we've been given. So if there's something wrong, then we are happy if
somebody points it out to us, it's the only way we can see mistakes that we
ourselves are blind to, and correct them. So long as the critique is valid,
and the letter phrased without attacking and flaming the person, instead
offering help or advice on how to change the mistakes, then it is very well
allowed on this list. It is when things get ugly that we draw the line.
Remember, we have a no-flaming policy, and we're going to do our best to
keep it up.

vickysmith, while I see your point, and acknowledge the fact that you (and
many others I'm sure) do not like incest fanfiction, no matter what, your
voiced opinion didn't help at all. Especially after I had requested that
nobody post anything else regarding this thread to the list. To your point
that Kimber shouldn't be held by a lower standard when it comes to the
rules, I think you are missing something there. As I have already said,
Kimber's as human as you are, and is prone to make the same mistakes. When
you consider that she also has a very busy real life, then it shouldn't be a
surprise that she isn't perfect. But she has been a member almost as long as
the list has existed, she was a moderator nearly from the start, she takes
these things very seriously, and would never do such a thing in full
knowledge. But we try to stay a bit more liberal when it comes to mistakes.
We forgive small errors, and once it has been pointed out, I'm sure that
those errors can be avoided in the future. It wouldn't make very much sense
if we punished everyone if they did something wrong. Plus, just what do you
expect us to do because of this? The only things we would be capable of
doing would be to either revoke Kimbers moderator status, or to kick her off
the list. I truly don't want to do either, especially not because of one
small mistake.
And I doubt you'd like that happening to you if you posted a story and
forgot the headers or a warning about possible questionable content.

And finally, the last, but not least, Phoen.
Just what were you thinking? You have been a member long enough to know the
rules, and after I specifically asked everyone to bring any problems anyone
has to us moderators, and your offer to do so, you should have come with
your flame to us. It especially didn't help to tell everyone who isn't happy
with the establishment, to just "fuck off". I already made my point above;
if there's any problems somebody has with us moderators, tell us, we're
willing to listen to your problems, and try to find a way to resolve them.
If you're still not happy with the results then, it's everybody's own choice
to forgive and forget, or to leave and seek their pleasure elsewhere.
Instead, you post a prime example of why I wanted to stop this thread before
it got any further. You insult everyone who isn't happy with incest and our
stance at leading this list. I am honored that you are so loyal and have
such high regards for us, but that doesn't give you the right to go ahead
and flame anyone who isn't our opinion.

Kimber posted a story without the proper headers on the request of Phoen.
She asked simply to take such comments offlist to her personally. Maybe she
should have immediately apologized for forgetting the warning about the
content. Maybe that would have avoided a few things, maybe not. She made a
mistake, so what, as I said before, forgive and forget. If anyone was truly
offended by the story, come to us, talk with us and we'll make sure that
your points are considered seriously. If you don't wish to do that, but
instead leave, do so, there's nothing wrong with that. Your choice.


At last, I'm going to say this to make things clear, and I hope you guys
will understand what I'm trying to do here.

I didn't ask you to stop the thread to protect Kimber. I didn't ask you to
stop the thread to decide any issues on this topic. There have been
monumental discussions about this elsewhere with many many people trying to
do that in the past, and still haven't reached anything near a consent. I
don't believe that we could ever achieve an agreement about this topic here.

It was because of the posts that immediately followed Kimbers', and the
subsequent escalation of the thread that it was being shut down. I did this
to stop the thread before anyone got hurt by personal insults and before the
thread split the entire list in two fractions combating over this. I tried
to stop it before it got as far as Phoens reply.
But as it seems, it didn't work out.

Again, I'm sorry it had to come to this. But those who can't follow the
rules, you are warned. If you are unwilling to let this case drop, or to
take it directly to us moderators, then you will have to suffer the
consequences. The moderation state of the list will stay active for at least
48 hours, maybe more, we'll see how it works out.
Anyone who still posts to this thread after that period will be set to
moderated. If you can't keep it to yourself, or go to a place where it CAN
be discussed, then you will be removed from the list. That's my last word on
this topic.

I'm doing this for the greater good, to save us a lot of grief. I know there
will be some who won't agree with what I'm doing here, and will leave the
list, possibly flame me for misusing my power, but that's how fate goes.

Again I remind you, that we are open for any problems you might have. Talk
to us.

And with that, I'm going to leave you to ponder the situation.
Regards
   Quin




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                     'Choices'

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