Re: when did it all begin?

[Jim Means <JIMMEANS@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

> She followed orders?  When?  She made decisions to help people, but
> those were decisions she made on her own.  She didn't go after the
> vamp that took Willow to the crypt because Giles ordered her to, but
> because there was this vamp taking Willow to a crypt.  Giles figured
> out she wasn't going to take an order right after their first
> conversation.  
>
> Having a sense of responsibility and letting a mentor teach and help
> isn't following orders or being subservient.  If anything, she 
ordered
> him around.  "Get your books, look stuff up".

Did we watch the same show? Describing Buffy and Giles relationships 
this simply is like saying that Joyce was simply the person that fed 
and bought Buffy new clothes.  Sure, Buffy didnt always follow Giles's 
orders(and yes, he did give her orders often enough) but that doesnt 
mean that Buffy was the boss and Giles was merely a mentor who teached 
her.   When Buffy wants out of her duties, she argues, wheedles, 
whines, and lies(shes a teenager afterall) but i cant remember a 
single instance where she went "Get your books, look stuff up" Maybe 
you can back up that claim with an episode?(im not asking for the 
exact quote, simply a episode where Buffy is the one ordering Giles 
around, instead of the other way around in the first seasons)  

As for the spesific incident you are referring to, yes, she is going 
after Willow because she wants to, and not because Giles says so. 
Makes sense, if you consider the fact that they met the previous day. 
At that point, he is still just a creepy librarian that tries to make 
her hunt vamps, whitch she is REALLY not interested in doing.  She got 
kicked out of her last school for it, had to move, and depending on if 
you believe that s6 rubbish, spent the summer in an insane asylum for 
it. Relationships do take a bit of time to develop you know. But once 
she decides that she cant run from being a slayer, and accepts that 
she is the chosen one, she also accepts Giles as her watcher.  I'd 
agree with that in the first episodes there is not too much 
Giles/Buffy interaction, but once Hank stops acting like a father 
figure, Giles takes over that role.


The exact source of the 'Get books, look stuff up' quote was 'The Wild Pack', waaayy back in Season 1.  However, taken in context, the 'Buffy ordering Giles around' argument falls flat.  Buffy told Giles to 'Get books...' because she was worried about Xander's suddenly aggressive behavior, after being infected by the hyena spirit.  Far from being subservient to Buffy, Giles argued that Xander's attitude was nothing more than adolescent rebellion, until he learned just how far Xander and his new posse had gone(I'm not entirely sure off-hand, but by this point, didn't they kill the school mascot?).  Giles proceeded to 'Get books, look stuff up' when Buffy's claims were met with corroborating evidence, not simply because she said so.  This was when Buffy and Giles were still getting to know each other; Giles still regarded Buffy as a flighty and unmotivated young girl, while Buffy saw Giles as a stuffy tweed-wearing authority figure for her to defy at every turn.

Buffy/Giles, as a ship, would probably work best after 'Chosen'.  She's done her bit for king and country, she is no longer the only Slayer but now the senior Slayer.  That kind of puts her more on Giles' level than ever before.  Now they are no longer mentor/student or Watcher/Slayer, but they are closer to being equals.

And does anyone else think Buffy and the Immortal were double-teaming Angel and Spike in order to get them both off her case for life?

Peace out,
Kirayoshi

________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com


------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> 
$9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/RoMolB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------------~-> 

Willow: "It's a good fight, Buffy, and I want in."
Buffy:  "I kinda love you."
                     'Choices'

Community email addresses:
     Post message: buffywantswillow@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
     Subscribe:    buffywantswillow-subscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
     Unsubscribe:  buffywantswillow-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
     List owner:   buffywantswillow-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Shortcut URL to this page:
     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/buffywantswillow

Official archive for the list:
     http://www.ikoly.com/fanfic

Other links to Buffy/Willow fics:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/buffywantswillow/links  
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/buffywantswillow/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
   buffywantswillow-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
   http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/