Re: Essay: The Decline of B/W Fan Fiction-I'll see your essay and raise ou ...

["Rod" <myself03@xxxxxxxxxx>]

Me again, and i'm even using the correct e-mail this time : )...Now, to get
things out of the way, i may comment about a few season six moments, so if
you haven't seen it...No spoilers, only aired stuff, i promise...Also, even
as i'm writing this i feel i end up not really reaching the point of Cilias
post...I got it, but my response to it may not be very fitting, at least in
the context things are being put on...Think of it more as a big rant, and i
just decided to use Cilia's post as an excuse...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Cilia" <cilia@xxxxx>
To: <buffywantswillow@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2001 8:22 PM
Subject: ::BuffyWantsWillow:: Essay: The Decline of B/W Fan Fiction


> The Decline of B/W Fan Fiction
>
> Sunday 25th of November 2001
>
> I would like to begin this essay by quoting a dear friend of mine who's
been
> a reader of fan fiction longer then I've been writing it. "Get creative
> Spike just joined a monastery so get a new fricken ship already!"

Okay, i'll admit i'm a bit slow, but I really didn't understand the whole
Spike reference...What does he have to do with anything ? ...

> I've been getting the feeling that some of my fellow authors have been
> thrown into a loop since it came apparent at least to me that Willow is
> turning to the dark side during this season on Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

I think almost everybody is someway or another surprised by the way things
are going on that particular front...I don't think everybody is going to
agree with me on this one, especially after what we've seen recently (
people start noticing things where they haven't before once they know what
to look for) , but to me Willow was always the controled one, the
level-headed, the one that by the end by the day always saw things more
clearly, but even with all this rational side, she still tried to follow her
heart...I'm not saying she was perfect, far from it, i really think that all
the characters on the show have many flaws, that what made them real , but ,
to me, Willow was the one that has always seemed true...She was the good
one...The one that stood by the others side as much as she could, even when
they didn't quite deserve it...She was the one always trying to mantain the
friendship, and believe me, during these past few seasons Xander and Buffy
did quite a few things to justify her turning her back...She loves these
people, she is a great person, she always was one of the good guys and now
she is the one who is turning evil...It just doesn't fit...I know, power is
addictive, she thinks she is only trying to makes things better and all that
, but by the end of the day she is only making things worst...I think that's
what is trowing people off...this sort of indecision about who Willow really
is...Is she the girl that restored Angel's soul and restored Tara's mind or
is she the one that tried to mess around with people's memories and went
around killing dears ? Is she evil , good or just addicted to the power ?
How are people supposed to write Willow if they are not sure who Willow is
right now ? I have my own answer to that one...To me Willow is the same
Willow i feel in love with back in the middle of the second season...Even
with all the changes her character went through i still see a part of that
girl in there...I don't think Willow would ever be capable of being truly
evil, just like i don't believe that Spike can be truly good...It goes
against everything we learned these past five years...Misguided yes, evil,
never...Whatever her choices are, and if the past few eps are any indication
they just won't be the best ones, i just know that she somehow will turn
around...That she will see that the path she is walking on isn't the best
... And THAT is what i'm trying to focus on...Because while Willow going
completely bad isn't really an in-character thing, her realizing her mistake
and trying to make amends certainly is...

> Although this does affect writers in different ways, those who rely
heavily
> on canon are perhaps more affected by this latest trick Joss has decided
to
> play on us.

Okay, i have to really ask something..By the end of the day does any writer
really rely on canon...I mean, i know that most people that write people try
to bring it to the present, try to tie the story to the moment the
characters are in right now, but other than that and a few other stuff, i
just don't see it as something very strict, something set...I mean, from the
moment you decide to write about a non-canon couple, a couple that is not
being really sold as romantic one, like B/W , them you are already kicking
canon out of the window...I'm not saying it can't be done, i've seen it
quite a lot, but i just don't think it is necessary...Still, i can see how
this can complicate things...I mean, take Willow for example...In 90% of the
stories you'll see that Willow is portrayed as the stable one, as the rock,
she enters with the emotion while Buffy has the strenght...Buffy is the
unbalanced one, the one that has to fight with her own darkness, and Willow
is the one who is there to help...It's a mix and match situation , together
they balance each other, they are complete...Now what are we to do when we
are presented with an unstable Willow? How can she help Buffy if she can't
help herself ? If the whole basis of the relationship between these two is
the balance what are we to do when THAT is taken away ? That is the
question that has been floating around in my head since i read the first few
spoilers about where the Willow plot seemed to me going...Everytime i watch
an ep and I see that Willow is slipping further away i worry more about what
that will do to the W/B comunity than to the show itself...And now, seing
the way things are in the groups these past few weeks i just realized that
my biggest fear is being confirmed...It seems that people are just giving
up...When i watch the show and i see something bad happening i just feel bad
for awhile, curse a little, get a little mad but i go to bed knowing that
Joss will eventually fix this, but when i come to the lists and see no
discussions, i see no one talking about it and no new fics to trying to
"make things better" i just know that the cut went a lot deeper than i
expected, and that scares me...a lot...

> I'm all for change and I usually try to embrace when it comes about, but
why
> then do I feel a longing for the golden age of B/W fan fiction? When the
> readers seemed actually interested in what happened in the story and the
> stories themselves were somehow 'better'.
>
> Not to say that there were just got stories back in the day, there will
> always be those not as gifted, but whom too burn with creative ideas,
those
> writers are a part of the writer community and should be saluted for their
> efforts, but pointing out flaws is no crime and doing so does not make the
> reader a bad person.

You know, i've recently found myself asking myself that very question, but
not quite like that...My main concern is ,at the moment, not the lack of
quality on the stories, but mainly the lack of our oldest fic writers...I
don't think that the quality of the stories can be measured by the moment
they were posted...Just like we had some stories some of us were not very
confortable with back then, we now also have stories we are not confortable
with and the same goes for the classics...There are quite a few things that
are making us come up with this sort of periodic division, but i really
doubt the quality of the stories is one of them...Most stories are as good
as before, the reader is as interested as ever, but the circunstances are
not the same...As much as i try to deny it, i'll have to admit that being a
B/W fan isn't the easiest thing in the world, and not only because of the
competition...The moments between these two are not only only further apart,
but we also need to look for them, and most of the people aren't going to do
that...I mean, i'm a firm believer that season 6 so far is full of B/W
subtext, but how can we make people see that if they are rarely in the same
scene together, not to mention all the other things that Joss is doing that
makes things a lot harder on us...Add to that the fact that the comunity
itself is different nowadays...The members have changed, the feedbackers,
but most of all, the writers have changed...Those who have being around for
awhile know what i'm getting at...Our comunity "grew up" reading stories
from Pat, Kim,Angela,Pink Rabbit and others, and now we do happy little
dances when we see a new piece from Jim,Shyfox,Mad-Hamlet or an snippet from
Annelise, among others....Now, while i'll admit that there was a diference
in style the quality is just as fantastic as ever, don't you agree ? Quite
frankly when i feel nostalgic, and believe me, i do, i long for the days i
used to see pieces from these authors on my mailbox, i would give anything
for a new part of Whither thou Goest, or for a new part in the "And it all
became clear" series or another series of stories like "A story that tells
the truth" ... Angela is still the first author that comes to my mind when
i'm in the mood for an angsty piece and Shadow will always be my point of
reference for "weird-but-oh-so-cool" and so it goes...Those authors are
part, a very important part, of our comunity, they're the ones that made
us...They made history here, and it really saddens me to think that they're
not as active as before...If any of them told me : do this and i'll get back
to the B/W circle i'd do it in a heartbeat, no questions asked, but i don't
think they will , so...People move on, lose interest, things get in the way,
real life happens, whatever the reason, it's just the way things are, it
happens to all of us, why wouldn't it happen to them? Now all we can do is
respect their decision and hope they know how much we admire them, how their
writings moved us , one way or another ...plus, in my case, i pray every day
that they ge back...what ? I have issues with letting things go :) Gosh, i
sound like a depressed bastard, don't I ? I'm not really ...Although, i must
admit, everytime i see a non B/W story by Pat on my mailbox i just cry my
eyes out...as you may have guessed, this has happened a lot lately...Do you
have any idea how many times i've read Two of a kind since he started the
B/C series ? I just had to remind myself not to feel so abandoned all the
time : ) Still, i'm not depressed, and THAT i own to all of them...The
older writers, for leaving me fantastic stories for me to remember them by
and our current ones, for not letting the ball drop, for being able to keep
not only that same level of quality we've grown used to , but for having the
guts to step up and show what they're here for...What i'm saying is, while
part of me is sad about not seing new stuff from older authors, i am
extremelly happy because i get to see great stuff from other authors that i
learned to love as much as the others ...You may call it the silver age, i
call it the white gold age...Just as valueable as the everyday gold, only in
a different color....What? My mother, sister and girlf decided that they
want jewerly for x-mas, i'm getting an earful...

> This brings to the question that I'm facing as an writer, is my story good
> or is it as good as it used to be? You see I was used to get all sorts of
> feedback ranging from; "You paint pictures with your words" to "You killed
> Willow you filthy SOB". Still now a day the only feedback I read if any
is;
> good work and keep it up. And this does not just apply to me, a seasoned
> writer, but it also applies those who are just starting out in this world
of
> fan fiction, this does not encourage growth. I may be secure in the
quality
> of my work, but who is to say that those who missed out on the Golden age
> are equally secure in theirs?

Now that is a great point and something that has been addresed before and
that almost every author must have thought about at one point or
another...I'm not an author, i don't know the true value of a feedback, i
must admit, but i'm a human being, and because of that i know how good it
feels to be praised for a job well done...The truth is, by the end of the
day, you did it for yourself, you're not trying to get people's aproval or
anything, but to know that that something you did with so much care, that
you put so much work into actually touched someone , that is one of the best
feelings in the world, that's how we feel about every aspect in our lives ,
and i'll assume it's no different for the writers and their fics...Now, we
go from acknowledging that feedback is a great thing to a point where we
question what REALLY is the feedback...We are over 800 on the list, and the
thing is, the most you'll see is around five-six people that say good job
and it's variations, at least that's what we see on-list ... So what does it
mean? That only five people are reading ? That only five readers care ?
NO...While i think it's insane to believe that 800 people are going to read
every fic here, i thing it's safe to say that at least 400 will...Out of
these, quite a few will like what they see, i mean, the liking degrees will
vary, but it will always be there...So , why then only 5 people end up
responding? Are they the only ones to care ? Once again the answer is
no...It's more a matter of being comfortable in the lurkers chair...If
someone else is responding, why should we...The author already knows we
care, we will keep on getting more, why should we bother moving, we would
end up coming of as repetitive and so on...It's a sad situation, but it's a
reality...It's not a matter of not liking, quite the contrary, but it's a
matter of being lazy...The problem is, people don't tell the writer that the
problem is not with the story, but with the reader, and that ends up making
things worst...So, is it enough? Knowing that there are in fact people
reading, people waiting for the next parts, even if these people don't speak
up? Can they be counted as a sort of silent feedbacker or is it necessary an
e-mail shaped acknowledgement ?You know, i am a believer that feedback can
also become an awful way to measure the quality of a story...You can write
an epic, the best thing ever, bring tears to the eyes of every reader, but
if in the end of the day nobody picks up the keyboard and write fb on it,
does it mean it sucked? Will it stop being a classic because of that? And
will an ordinary piece become a classic because many people comented on it?
The truth is, the reader needs to know what the writer is looking for when
he/she asks for feedback...If they just want to know that the stories are
being read, that it's not just passing by people's head then a "good work,
keep it up" is enough ? If they want an indication that the readers care
about the story and characters on it , then is expressing our reactions
about the events unfolded in the story, much in the way we do with the show,
the best way to go, and if so, does it have to be a long draw-out commentary
or just a brief note is enough ? If the author asks for CC , how far can you
go before you end up hurting the persons feelings....Can you keep the
criticism in the constructive field or are you a no limits kind of critic ?
I think that last one is kinda tricky....The truth is, VERY FEW people are
able to write CC, at least in the way it should be done....The truth is ,
not everybody is good at expressing their thoughts on a particular matter,
and sometimes a little comment may end up seen as a huge flame, even if it
was never the intention...But that is what you must prepare yourself for
when you ask for CC and that is why must people steer away from it...

Now , to those wondering , when i say that fbers are lazy, or that they just
get comfortable in their posision, knowing that if they like a story then
others will like it too and will let the authors know, i'm speaking from
experience...You know , when i read a story i REALLY read it, i live it, i
disconnect myself from the world, so when i like something i read i just
don't like it, i LOVE it, i care about it and such...And when i write fb i
try to pass that to the writer...I can't , for the life of me, write small
fb...I always end up rambling on and on , trying to let the author know just
how much that story moved me...I don't think i ever quite manage it, but at
least i try....Still, that became quite a problem to me...by the end of the
day it seemed the fb was longer than the story itself, but i tried to send
it out as often as I could...I must have bored people to death with them,
but what could i do, i was happy...But then things changed, my life became a
mess and i got caught in the middle...Reading fics became quite hard and
writing fb was impossible....I mean, i could have just droped a line or two,
but i just couldn't bring myself to it...I'm not a one-line response guy,
even though i really wish i were...I'm working on it, but not quite there
yet...So, when my life got back to "normal" , i was in a different
time...The authors i was used to were gone and i had to take my time to
catch up and also to keep up with the new ones...As you must have guessed i
wasn't very sucessul in any of these parts...I mean, by now i have read the
stories, but i never caught the fb train again...I feel bad about writing
about a new story when i still haven't commented on an older one, and i
also feel extremely self-aware sending feedback for a fic posted around one
year ago...I'll go with my favorite exemple guy, Pat (you'd think i have a
sort of obsession with the guy, i always end up mentioning him...it's just i
admire the guy a lot, always have, i wish i could be like him when i grow up
: ) ...Of all the authors here, he is the one whose work i've been most
familiar with...I've known his work for quite awhile now, from a time when
buffyloveswillow and buffywantswillow weren't even an idea, a time where i
read a fanfic from his that dealt with Buffy and Willow writing letters to
each other and saw that as a B/W fic just because they were the two main
characters...What ? If you were around back then you'd understand : )
Anyway, he was one of the first people i ever sent feedback to, back when he
was writing two of a kind i think...I made a habit of reading his fic, even
going as far as reading parts of B/F stories from him(something i will
never do again , believe me, not because the story is bad, quite the
contrary, but because it was TOO GOOD and about the wrong couple...what? I
have B/F issues...In fact, i have Buffy/Anyone-other-than-Willow issues,
so...) but as i said with the whole life stuff that was happening he was one
of the writers i end up neglecting...And if you saw me when he anounced he
was trowing the towel on B/W and pursuing other couples, as he still is
nowadays, you would see the amount of respect and admiration i have for that
guys work...I mean, even in my worst moments, when i felt all down i somehow
managed to get a hold of a new fic and it made things a little
better...There was even a case of three different people printing a story he
posted because they thought i might like it and i hadn't been by the
computer in awhile(what? I like to make my preferences known) ...Anyway, the
othe day i was at Gary's site, stories by author , letter p and i for a
moment there i felt like i was in a timeless space, and even as i read
Prophecy of love and The "A story" series for the 100th time i just basked
myself in the wonderfulness of the whole thing and had a great time...Still,
by the end of the day, i asked myself, have i ever written fb on this one ?
Have i ever let him know what a great piece i think this and many others of
his stories are? And if not, should I? Would it matter? It's been around a
year, he has clearly moved on in his writing period and so on...I know it
seems a little specific, but the thing is, i feel that way about other
authors...I mean, it is stronger with Pat, mainly because his stories always
seemed to affect me in a different way, but happens a lot, and if i can't
send fb to them, who got me here in the first place, then how can i send to
the others....Okay, am I the only one that thinks that I have a really
messed up head? Yeah, i didn't think so...I know it doesn't make sense ,
but it does in my head...I guess that was just sort of a way to explain
myself, to get things out...A sort of explanation about the lack of feedback
from one of our over 800 members...It's not that i don't care, far from it,
it's more about me caring too much...You know, i feel better letting that
out...maybe i'll try the fb thing again... Give it a try : )

That all being said , i think it's a little alarming the way things are
going, at least feedback wise...I do hope things are better in the off-list
field, but i can't help but think they aren't ... I really wonder if people
realize that this lack of response is driving not only our oldest but also
our newest writers away...I'm not saying that people should just write fb
for the sake of it, just to boost ego, but if you read an story and you like
it, then let the writer know...If it made you feel anything , tell
them....Because, by the end of the day, no matter what i say , that's still
one of the most important things in the fic world : knowing that the readers
care...

> I know I'm straying from my subject, but perhaps not. Has it become so
that
> we are more concerned with bulk then quality? When stories are posted just
> for the sake of posting them and small ideas explode into grant epics
> hammered out and immediately posted without a thought to structure or
form.
> Is this for the better? Are we witnessing the decline of B/W fan fiction?
> Has our *Silver Age come at last?

You know, i really don't think our concerns changed a lot over the years,
at least not fiction wise...We are still doing things the same way we always
did, we are looking for the same things, the only difference is that now
there are differnt people doing it....Now, as for the posting without care
and such, i'll be one of the first to admit that i made that mistake myself,
and maybe attempt to justify things , or try to...In over two years of lists
there is something that has always bothered me...my inability to write...I
spend most of my time with ideas for B/W stories running around in my mnd,
but i can't , for the life of me, connect them so they can form a
story...It's a pain in the ass , to tell you the truth , something that
really bugs me, so , needless to say, when the situation presented itself
and i finally got around to writing a fic i was a little over excited...I
just put the thoughts down on the paper, not caring about order, grammar or
anything like that...And the worst part, it happened twice...I wrote and
posted...No spellcheck, no proofreading, no reading...It's something i'm
quite ashamed of, not only because I do think it sucked or because i know
that i could do a lot better than that, but also because i know that if i
had proofread, if i had waited for a beta i could have made THAT
better...Even now, i don't think i could read these stories...I attempted to
, but once i realized what i had done , that i had actually written that i
just...Recently i received fb on one of these stories(about that, if mesages
start disapearing from your mailbox, what could it be, i use outlook...) and
one of the things that was mentioned was the changing the person thing...I
mean, even know , as i think about it i just...That is one of THE most
imortant rules when it comes to writing, at least in portuguese, and i still
can't believe i made such an ordinary mistake...So, what made me do
that?Post without giving it a second thought or even looking things over not
only once , but twice...I really don't know, i just know that at the time i
just wanted to post, i just had to, and now i'm the one paying...I know that
a story full of mistakes and all bugs a lot , but the one who is most
bothered about the whole thing is always the author...By the end of the day
we are our wort critcs...That all being said, i have to admit lately i've
being playing with the idea of writing a new story...Hopefully by the time
i do i'll have calm to proofread it, get someone to beta and try to write a
story that i consider good for my standarts, even if others don't agree
with me...It doesn't have to be great, but it does have to be the "best i
can do" and to me that's what matters...Still, i don't really know if i will
be able to get there , who is to say that the thing that made post these
first two fics in such a careless maner the first two times wwon't be there
again ? But the important thing is that i'm trying again, that i know what i
did wrong and i'll try to correct it, and that's what I think this whole
thing is about....We all gotta start somewhere and learn from our
mistakes...So, by the end of the day i really don't think there is a
decline, just a few people trying to get somewhere...Also, i really don't
think anyone can consider this a Silver Age when we have fantastic authors
like Shyfox, Jim ,Mad-Hamlet etc around...We're living in a diferent time,
but certainly not worst...

> This brings me to the quote I started this with, have we become stuck in
our
> own ship? Is the ship, no pun intended, sinking beneath us as we continue
to
> pump out the same drabbles as were written back in the early days? Where
do
> we draw the line between the fan and the fiction?

> Writing a story about two girls, named Buffy and Willow, finding love in
> good times and bad, this is at the core of what we write about. There have
> been many variations on this theme and it's been set against backdrops
that
> vary in time and in space. Written by writers many of whom have great
skills
> and talents, whose works I have enjoyed over the years and through their
> stories we have experience the lives and times of Buffy and Willow, over
and
> over again.
>
> Although this as at the core of our stories, just like an apple there is
> more to it then just the core. So has come to that, have we gone from
having
> a few shining apples to having a basket full of cores? Is that what we
want,
> does the story matter less then having the complementary Buffy and Willow
> love scene with a few scraps of plot thrown in there for plots sake? I do
> not have the answers, but perhaps you do?

Now, i know that this probably not the point or anything, but it's the part
of this that i want to focus on : when it comes to Willow and Buffy as a
couple , are they done with, did we explore every aspect we could out of
this relationship ? The answer is a big fat no....We're not even close...I
mean, i know what i said earlier, about this not being the happiest season
for B/W , but come on, it was not like there are that many fics on season 3,
and THAT was the best one for them...To me, this is THE moment to write B/W
, and not only because of the "make things better " factor , although to
most of us that is what we will be looking for in fics this season, there is
just so much more to look for...Lets start with this season...For starters,
Willow is single...The Tara cloud is out of the way...surely, i may come
back, but once we get hid of them once it is always easier to get make them
disappear later...Buffy i won't even coment, not only because of the way
THAT is being played, so far, but also be cause i never saw the guys as a
big competion in the femslash world...Not only that, but their paths are
extremely linked...They may be apart, but they're going through the same
things, and most of all, we now may explore the one aspect that made B/A ,
B/S and B/F so popular : the redemption...We got to explore the tragic,
dark side and we can have a lot of fun doing that....The other pairings
could do it, i'm pretty sure that we can do it a lot better...Because by
the end of the day, no matter what happens, the journey though the dark side
and eventual redemption of a character like Willow has a lot more impact
than any other charater...We're not only talking about people who always had
dark inside or a new character with and attitude , we're talking about
someone that has being around from the begining and that knows her oponents
more than she knows herself...There can be a whole new facet to their
interaction...Still, if people aren't comfortable with that, there will
alwyas be the past...I mean, we have over a hundred eps before us, a hundred
eps where we didn't have to worry about the dark and all...Very few others
unconventional ships can say that...In fact when i think about it, we are
the only that can truly say that...B/S started at season 5, B/F only had
season 3, W/X until season 3, B/X until season 2, B/A season 3 and so...But
Buffy/Willow never stoped...sure , there were times it was not alwyas there,
but then it would only take one simple act to remind us that they're doing
that for each other...I mean, in the first episode of season 1 they connect
instantly, and in the first ep of season 6 one of these girls is risking
geting herself and her friends killed to get the other back from the
grave....A relationship like that went a loooog way over these past few
years and it's a long way from ending....There's too much to explore....Pov,
thoughts, post-episode reactions, what-ifs, altered plotlines ....There's so
much things that could be done....From the ocasional fanfic loosely based on
a time period to a entire series rewrite featuring different characters in
different situations...I mean, what if Willow was Angel? What if Buffy was
the one Willow kissed in Homecoming? What if What if Buffy and Willow were
the best friends since diapers? What if Buffy had completed the high-shool
love triangle(Willow loves Xander, who loves Buffy, who loves Willow)?
...You know, i could go like that forever....But my point is, it could
really work, i mean, Dreiser did it for F/C , Pat did it with Two of a kind,
who is to say it can't be done again ? Not to mention the amount of one
pieces we could get from their on and off screen moments...The doctor line,
their love makes you do the wacky talk, the kind of love you, the death
scares....And there's also the situations with other characters that could
be turned into Buffy/Willow....like the The witch "do you know why i love
you so" moment, or Go fish, with Willow being in the swin team, or Where the
wild things are with B/W or The replacement with two Willows....The
oportunities are all there, we just have to grab them...So to answer you
question, no i don't think B/W have reached their limit, i don't think they
will anytime soon....In fact, i think that of all the couples , canon or
not, they're the ones with more space to grow .But i really wish that the
ones that are somehow uncomfortable with the present would look at the past
for awhile....They would see many great things there...

> Take care,
> Cilia

Ditto...

> *The Silver Age is a comic industry reference, it describes a period when
> comics became darker and lost much of their luster of old. Heroes became
> psychopaths with mother fixations and the same stories were recycled over
> and over again, with carnage and flat characters that were more then often
> inter changeable being the only constants, it took the industry decades to
> recover, a process that's still going on today.

You know, i don't really remember that time...What ? Is it my fault that the
only comics i bought were mainly about Donald Duck , Mickey and Monica ? I
was a small kid : )

Well, that was a tab big, and i'm sorry..Sometimes i just can't stop
myself....Sorry for the many structural , grammar and spelling mistakes and
for the way things just seem off the map...I usually discuss these things
with my computer/Buffy-sharing-budy , but since he is away i've had all
these thoughts in my head and now i really felt the need to let them out...I
really hope people understand where i'm comeing from and where i'm trying to
pass....If you'd like to add a comment, i'd be glad to hear....

Tchau