Re: E

["ebailey140" <ebailey140@xxxxxxx>]

--- In buffywantswillow@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Patrick Sanders 
<rsand21266@y...> wrote:
> >What 
> >was of most importance to you was killing Buffy, period.
>  
> I never said that.  I may have implied that.  Let me tell you what 
I meant.  I would rather the series ended on a note when Buffy was 
COOKIES, not COOKIE DOUGH.  When you get to the end of a story, a 
character should be a Cookie.  May not be a happy Cookie, may not be 
a living Cookie, but a Cookie.
>  
> In my mind Buffy was a Cookie in "The Gift", she was nowhere near 
one in "Chosen."

She was, as far as her calling was concerned.  She was referring 
very specifically to her romantic life, there.  She's very with her 
calling as a Slayer, but is more positive about it than she was 
in "The Gift", which was more about being resigned to never being 
able to enjoy life, feeling she had nothing to live FOR, just 
wanting it to end.  Being consumed by a death wish isn't what I'd 
call "complete".  That was one good thing that came out of the run 
from Normal Again to Grave, losing the death wish, being determined 
to live life to it's fullest despite the risks of her calling.
The "cookie dough" conversation was her explanation to Angel about 
why she wasn't ready to settle down with him, or Spike.  She was 
going to, for the first time in a lot of years, give living life a 
try, rather than just trying to find a little comfort between the 
constant fighting.  She doesn't feel "Doomed", any more, misery 
being "sealed in fate".  She now feels she can be someone more than 
JUST "the Slayer".  Her attitude towards relationships post-Angel 
was that she had nothing to offer, that happiness was something she 
could never have, so why make the attempt.  Now, she wanted to see 
the world, and take Dawn, as she'd promised her she would.  But, 
mainly, it was to get one last oral sex joke in before the series 
ended.  Once she's established who she is BESIDES the Slayer, she'll 
think in terms of who she wants to go down on her...
Don't look at me like that, it was HER analogy  :)   

Once they were done with the First, if they survived, the Fab Four 
knew they had an opportunity to really live life, again, like they 
used to, before things got so overwhelming.  Hence, the Season 1 
style mall discussion just before the final battle.      
>  
> >As for the First not being a real threat, I think the Watchers 
> >Council, who knows how many Potentials, Jonathon, and Anya would 
> >argue that.  
>  
> I'm not talking about the LACKIES of the First, I'm talking about 
the First as a character.  
> In S7 it has no personality, no distinction, no sense of meance 
physically or pychologically. (As loathe I am to mention him, look 
at Mel Gibson's portrayal of Satan in that crap movie of his. She 
takes no direct action in any of the bloodshed yet her very presense 
brings terror. Never so with the First)  Heck, it spent half the 
time wanking to Spike. It didn't really fight Buffy for crying out 
loud.  Compare this to Angelus in S2 or Faith in S3. 
>  
> For all the pomposity, the First was a lame villian.  It barely 
qualified as a Big Bad. 

She wasn't physical, and, unlike most of the threats Buffy faced, 
the First didn't want to kill her.  She wanted to BE her.   
>  
> >And what 
> >does it matter that Sunnydale is gone, since we were never going 
to 
> >see it again once the series ended, anyway?  
>  
> What about the hundreds upon hundreds of graves swallowed up by 
Spike's magical McGuffin?  What about the Espresso Pump?  The 
Bronze? Not of that stuff had any meaning?  Tara's grave?  Joyce's 
grave?  

Which we were never going to see again, regardless.  Sunnydale was 
going to be gone, for us, anyway.  But, for the characters, we know 
there's life AFTER the Hellmouth.  We left them with hope for the 
future, rather than condemned to an early and painful death. 

Sure, it messes up some fanfic, but really, they had no 
responsibility to maintain a status quo for the fic writers.  Their 
only responsibility was to finish the story THEY started.       
> >And, if you think Buffy is being unfair to the poor vamps and 
demons 
> >by making the odds a little more even instead of the overwhelming 
> >advantage given to the bad guys, before, don't you have to bash 
> >Willow, too?  Who performed the spell?  
>
> I'm not bashing anyone but Joss Whedon. The thing I despise the 
most the absoulte ruination of her character in S6-S7.
>  
> Keep in mind, I'm just expressing an opinion about a TV show.  
It's not like we're discussing the War. 

I just don't see where you get Buffy and Willow not only saving the 
world again, but increasing the odds in favor of the good guys a bit
(who are STILL outnumbered, but it's now not just six or so people 
against legions), as a bad and irresponsible thing for them to do.  
They're SUPPOSED to be trying to save as many innocent lives as they 
can, not keep it easy for the vamps and other demons to kill whoever 
they want.  

E



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Willow: "It's a good fight, Buffy, and I want in."
Buffy:  "I kinda love you."
                     'Choices'

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