Re: when did it all begin?

["ebailey140" <ebailey140@xxxxxxx>]

--- In buffywantswillow@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "zorro625"
<epostadressami@h...> wrote:
> oki, to make a short(heh, we can always hope) reply to the B/G 
> thoughts of dan.
>
> Im not claiming that giles is Buffys father, im saying that he is 
> acting as an authority figure to her. There is a distinction here.  
> While i feel that he is also taking over as a "spare" dad to her after 
> Hank moves out of the picture, thats really beside the point.
> Im not claiming that Buffy is actually always doing what he says, or 
> that she is not going against his wishes or anything. Like i mentioned 
> before, Kendra is a obedient perfect little slayer, Buffy is not. That 
> doesnt change the fact that he is an authority figure.  If Buffy wants 
> out of slaying, wants to achieve something from him, she begs, pouts, 
> wheedles.  That is not the actions of someone in a "equal power" 
> relationship. 
>
> As for the get stuff comment.. Yes i know it comes from there, and it 
> was uttered in an argument, and it did NOT lead to Giles actually 
> doing as he was told.. He didnt do that until he got further evidence 
> there was something wrong with Xander.
>
> As for the cheerleading incident yes, Buffy does not instantly follow 
> his lead.  To go from there to saying that Buffy is the boss of that 
> relationship is a FAR stretch though i think.. I would rather say they 
> are fairly early in their relationship instead, and are still feeling 
> their way around who's what.  Do remember that they only met like 2-3 
> weeks ago for the first time, relationships doesnt spring up fullblown 
> overnight.
>  
> If you want to look at an episode like inca mummy girl though, where 
> the scoobs in the library discuss the bodyguard, and Giles suggests 
> they meet up after the museum closes, and Buffy goes : No! Bad plan. I 
> have other plans. Dance plans. 
> She gets a stern look from Giles, and gives up that idea right away. 
> That really doesnt scream Buffy is the boss to me.
>
> Same thing in reptile boy, where she sneaks off to a frat party.  When 
>  Giles tries to make her go patrol, she lies and makes up an excuse 
> that she is not feeling well. While this doesnt make her seem obedient 
> in any form or shape, it neither makes her seem anything like the 
> boss. If she was that, she would simply imform him to butt out and 
> mind his own business. Giles actually does that though, in The dark 
> ages. (again, Buffy doesnt FOLLOW those orders, but thats not the 
> point, the point is that Giles is acting like an authority figure. He 
> commands, with varying degree of sucess, and Buffy does not)
>
> As for the whole Buffy acts wildly different towards Joyce than Giles, 
> well.... I disagree. The big difference is simply that she obeys Giles 
> more than Joyce. 

When we talk about the Scooby Gang, we refer to four specific
characters, plus the ones that have come and gone over time (like
Angel, Cordy, Jenny, Oz, Faith, Riley, Tara, Dawn, and Spike).  Those
four core Scoobies are Buffy, Willow, Xander, and Giles.  If there's
any question that Giles is a part of the core group rather than some
parental/authority figure apart from it like Joyce, see Primeval and
Restless, which closed Season 4.

To use the King Arthur comparison, again, Buffy is the leader.  Arthur
followed his mentor, Merlin's, advice, but Merlin wasn't the
commander.     
> As for the giles/wesley confusion you mention.. Yes.. Wesley is 
> confused that Buffy isnt a nice obedient slayer.  That Buffy never 
> was, but to go from there to claim that Giles doesnt have a lot of 
> influence over her, and is simply a friend, that is in my opinion a 
> huge misrepresentation of the argument.  What Wesley is surprised over 
> is that B/G doesnt have a professional relationship, where Giles cooly 
> gives the orders, and Buffy unquestionly follows them. (Whitch seems 
> to be the norm for council trained slayers, see Kendra) 
>
> So.. in concusion.. Yes.. In season 1 B/G are still testing the waters 
> as to who are boss and not, as to what sort of relationship they are 
> going to have. In season 2 they have firmly moved into a what i would 
> call a father/daughter relationship, but if you disagree with using 
> those terms, then simply say that Giles is the boss, and Buffy is not. 

Which is why, in Choices, when Willow was being exchanged for the box,
when the respective leaders stepped forward to make the exchange, it
was Wilkins and Giles...  Oh wait, it wasn't.  It was Wilkins and Buffy.

E



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Willow: "It's a good fight, Buffy, and I want in."
Buffy:  "I kinda love you."
                     'Choices'

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