Re: when did it all begin?

[mike <wizathogwarts@xxxxxxxxx>]

Now this gets back on track because it's about when did the B/W ship begin, and when it began is important because it was the first.

This scene shows how uncomfortable Buffy is with Cordelia and curiosity/interest possibly in Willow.

 

Cordelia:  Willow! Nice dress! Good to know you've seen the softer side
of Sears.

Willow:  Uh, oh, well, my mom picked it out.

Cordelia:  No wonder you're such a guy magnet. Are you done?

Willow looks at the fountain, then back at Cordelia.

Willow:  Oh!

She turns and leaves. Buffy watches her go for a moment, then looks back
at Cordelia after she starts talking again.

Cordelia:  You wanna fit in here, the first rule is: know your losers.
Once you can identify them all by sight (glances after Willow) they're a
lot easier to avoid.

Buffy lets out a nervous laugh and nods. She looks at Willow again, who
has gone through the door at the end of the hall. Willow looks back at
them before she continues.

 

The next scene, the famous bench scene at lunch.  Buffy sought Willow out, ostensibly for help with school work.  Right, we are talking about Buffy so if you beleive this I've got a bridge to sell you.

 

The quad at school. Willow is sitting on a bench in front of a wall
taking out her lunch. Buffy approaches her.

Buffy:  Uh, Hi! Willow, right?

Willow:  (looks up) Why? I-I mean, hi! Uh, did you want me to move?

Buffy:  Why don't we start with, 'Hi, I'm Buffy,' and, uh, then let's
segue directly into me asking you for a favor. (sits next to her) It
doesn't involve moving, but it does involve hanging out with me for a
while.

Willow:  But aren't you hanging out with Cordelia?

Buffy:  I can't do both?

Willow:  Not legally.

Buffy:  (exhales) Look, I really wanna get by here, new school, and...
Cordelia's been really nice... to me... anyway, but, um, I kinda have
this burning desire not to flunk all my classes, and I heard a rumor
that you were the person to talk to if I wanted to get caught up.

Willow:  Oh, I could *totally* help you out! Uh, if you have sixth
period free we could meet in the library?

Buffy:  Or not. Or we could meet someplace quieter. Louder. Uh, that
place just kinda gives me the wiggins.

Willow:  Oh, it has that effect on most kids. I love it, though, it's a
great collection, and the new librarian is really cool.

Buffy:  He's new?

Willow:  Yeah, he just started. He was a curator at some British museum,
or, or The British Museum, I'm not sure. But he knows everything, and he
brought all these historical volumes and biographies, and am I the
single dullest person alive?

Buffy:  Not at all.

In between these scenes was Buffy's first encounter with Giles and we all know how that went.  The old guy creeped her out.

 

With a big grin on his face he pulls out a large old book with the word
"VAMPYR" written in gold leaf on the front cover. Buffy looks up at him
with an uneasy gaze.

Buffy:  That's not what I'm looking for.

Giles:  Are you sure?

Buffy:  I'm *way* sure.

Giles:  (confused) My mistake.

He puts the book back behind the counter. Buffy quickly leaves.

Buffy sought out Willow and it's only because the networks would never allow a same sex relationship between the two of them that it never occured. 

As for Buffy's attraction to older men, a little psych 101 explains that with her losing her father's love and trying to recapture it vicariously through other, older men.  This argument actually supports a B/G ship, but it wouldn't be real love, just another balm for her wounded psyche.  (Yea, I know that's out of left field but I still think it has merit.)

ebailey140 <ebailey140@xxxxxxx> wrote:

> --- In buffywantswillow@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Mike Cronin
> <wizathogwarts@y...> wrote:
> > What we all enjoy about the ships that appeal to us have little or
> nothing to do with how open minded each of us are.  They have to do
> with what appeals to our own personal experiences.  What satisfies our
> own desires.  
> >  
> > I personally can't see Buffy with a significantly older person, let
> alone an older man.  This includes Angel, Spike and Giles.  What
> appeals to me personally is Buffy with a female, especially Willow. 
> This is a personal preference, and our personal preferences make all
> of us close minded to some extent.
>
> But, if we look at the canon characters, as opposed to our fanon ones,
> the B/G ship actually makes more sense than B/W, and is a lot easier
> to argue for.  At least B/G has 
> Buffy's
>  established taste for older
> men, and that the other women in the cast were attracted to him in
> that way (Willow, Faith, Anya), whereas B/W requires changing Buffy's
> long established sexual orientation.  ME offered the B/G crowd more
> ammo than they ever gave B/W.  
>
> Sure, the entire basis for B/G is a close friendship with great
> chemistry, but that's all B/W really has as it's basis, too.  Sure,
> there was nothing in the scripts to suggest that Giles saw Buffy that
> way, but there wasn't anything in the scripts to suggest that Willow
> ever did, either.   
>
> That's one thing about these ships.  Canon has certain characters not
> noticing others, but the shipper can't see how it would be possible. 
> For example, with Giles, Buffy's a beautiful young woman that he loves
> that's also the most important person in his life, who all the male
> characters fall for.  Meanwhile, Giles is an attractive older man
>  that
> Buffy, who's tastes seem to primarily run to attractive older men,
> loves, who all of Buffy's contemporaries are attracted to, from
> Willow, to Faith, to Anya, the only exception being Tara (and, well,
> we know Buffy's attracted to guys), demonstrating that we're not
> supposed to see him as a shrivelled up old geezer.  Add the special
> bond that the Watcher and Slayer have, and the B/G shipper sees them
> as right for each other.  
>
> Similarly, canon would have us believe that Willow, after all those
> years around Buffy, Cordy, and Faith, NEVER got tingly feelings around
> a female until Tara came along, even subconciously.  But, she loved
> Tara, one could argue, and that was what brought the sexual
> orientation out.  OK...  I can see Willow not having a lot of love for
> Cordy or Faith, but never having as strong an emotional love for Buffy
> after all those years as she had for Tara after one night fighting
>  the
> Gentlemen?  Now, don't get me wrong, I like Tara, a lot, but...  It
> just doesn't seem possible, to me, that Willow NEVER had romantic
> feelings for Buffy.  She seemed to, frequently, BEFORE she was "gay,
> now".  And, if Buffy's completely straight, how do they explain Season
> 3?  ME tried to have their cake and eat it too, here, saying that
> Buffy and Faith were sexually attracted to each other, yet also
> insisting they were both completely hetero.  
>
> So, in the cases of both B/G and B/W, it's fans making more sense out
> of how people feel about each other ME wanted.  It was about making
> sense with the characters established.  This also includes what the
> actors, themselves, brought to their scenes.  It's said that a
> character isn't entirely the creation of the writer, that what the
> actor brings to what's written, how the actor interprets something, is
> part of creating the character. 
> ; SMG,
>  AH, ASH, NB, JM, and ED all
> brought more to their characters, and the relationships between them,
> than what Joss gave them, and, most likely, a lot more than what he
> wanted.  That's the "problem" when you have a really talented cast
> that aren't blank slates.  They're going to add things of their own,
> pull from their own emotions and experiences, make the characters into
> something other than what they were oriinally concieved to be.  Some
> have speculated that we might have liked Riley, and Buffy's
> relationship with him, if he'd been played by a different actor, say,
> Christian Kane (Lindsey on Angel).  What would he have brought to the
> role?  How would he have played with SMG, or the rest of the cast? 
> Riley would have been a different character, entirely.  
>
> E
>
>
>
> Willow: "It's a good fight, Buffy, and I want in."
> Buffy:  "I kinda love
>  you."
>                       —'Choices'
>
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Willow: "It's a good fight, Buffy, and I want in."
Buffy:  "I kinda love you."
                      —'Choices'

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