Re: OT re: "Popular" fanfic couples

["Koos van Winden" <koosfanfic@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

--- In buffywantswillow@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "ebailey140" 
<ebailey140@a...> wrote:
> --- In buffywantswillow@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Koos van Winden"
> <koosfanfic@h...> wrote:
> > 
> > --- In buffywantswillow@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "ebailey140" 
> > <ebailey140@a...> wrote:.> > 
> > > But, the difference is that Buffy and Willow are allowed to have
> > > faults.  B/W fic, for the most parts, allows them to have 
> > relationship
> > > problems, based on the characters.  Tara, in canon, quickly 
> > developed
> > > the problem of being something of a token.  She started as this
> > > mysterious, and layered, figure, in Season 4.  She spent Season 
5
> > > being an attachment to Willow, not really being a full 
character. 
> > > Season 6 saw her develop a backbone when it came to Willow, and
> > > developing ties with the other characters.  But, her Season 6
> > > development, and interaction with other characters, made her 
lack of
> > > development over the previous two seasons that much more 
> > noticable.  
> > > 
> > > I think I have to credit my love for Tara almost entirely to 
Amber
> > > Benson, who took what was essentially a cypher in the role 
of "Token
> > > Lesbian" and made her genuinely lovable.  Amber didn't get much 
help
> > > from the writers until Willow started screwing things up.  
Anyone 
> > with
> > > less charisma, and Tara would never have caught on.  Look at 
> > Kennedy.  
> > > 
> > > What they should have done was develop Tara as a person, first 
and
> > > foremost, who just happened to be gay, rather than defining her 
as
> > > "Willow's Girlfriend".
> > > 
> > Oh, I completely agree with you on that Amber was fantastic. She 
has 
> > an incredible bodylanguage. 
>
> Yeah, there were always these little bits she'd do that would make
> Tara endearing, like the bit with the sleeves, or just little
> movements and expressions here and there.
> > 
> > With Kennedy the writers made some very big mistakes. They 
> > underdeveloped Tara, but Kennedy they made real errors. First 
mistake 
> > is that Willow got involved way to early. Second mistake is that 
> > Kennedy got Willow over the backs of other characters (something 
> > like, oh, only Kennedy is left to care for me). (Like they did 
with 
> > Spuffy). Third. Kennedy looks way to much like Faith. And Faith 
is 
> > played by a more talented actress and is much better developed.
> > Then comes the real question: why would Willow need another 
> > girlfriend? Isn't it time that she got to work on her identity 
and 
> > her issues? Kennedy was a waste of screentime. (I do like her 
> > though :))
>
> I saw Kennedy as Cordy without the Charisma.  So, THAT was Willow's
> high school crush, and why she hit the ceiling when Xander started
> dating her?  I'm disappointed  :)
>
> But, I agree the relationship was unneccessary.  Buffy was able to 
go
> all season without an affair, so I think the season (given that it 
was
> the last one) would have been better served by having the two lead
> characters re-establish their bond. 

Totally agree. And it's not only Buffy who was without an affair. 
Dawn, Xander, Anya, Giles, Spike were. But, no, the person who needs 
at least have an afair, so she can bond with her friends and have her 
identity issues worked out gets an affair. As did Faith, who so did 
not need it either and still hadn't worked out her past with the rest.

It's a lack on writing skills.

> Of course, there's also what the S7 plans were involving Tara to
> consider, where Buffy was going to be given a gift by the PTB for
> everything she'd done for the world, and rather than do something 
for
> herself, she wants, more than anything in the world, Willow's
> happiness.  Sigh...  Will, you're never going to find that kind of
> unconditional love from the Studtongue...   
> > 
> > But, to come back to the point of discussion. It's not their 
faults 
> > what is my problem, it's the image I have when Buffy and Willow 
are 
> > together and when they are friendly.
>
> There is a some cuteness to it, I'll admit.  I'll also admit to 
being
> one of the worst offenders when it comes to writing them especially
> cutesy.  But, in my defense, it's usually when they're having a 
really
> out there conversation or something over the top is going on.  
> A lot of it has to do with my perception of Willow as being 
especially
> cute.  The B/W ship does bring out the lighter, happier, sweet side 
of
> Buffy, though, which is part of the appeal.  Most Buffy ships tend 
to
> be heavy on the angst (Angel, Faith, Spike), which has made for some
> fantastic fics (and episodes of the show), but with Willow one can
> give Buffy a soulmate she can be genuinely happy with, and who can
> make HER happy.  Not that there's not room for plenty of dark, sexy,
> angsty stuff, especially with the last two seasons.  That's the 
beauty
> of it, you can just about do anything with these two. 
>
> E

Yep. But, it needs some work on Willow's character as well, something 
I find strongly forgotten by most Willow/Buffy fans: Willow looks up 
to Buffy and loses her own identity in the Slayer. Just look at Empty 
Spaces. Willow does not agree with Buffy (I don't go into the details 
of why), but she has really big problems standing up for herself at 
that moment. 
Something she also has with Giles. Doublegangland is another example 
and of course the final two episodes of S6. Where she showed her real 
opinion, only she needed dark magic to be able to show it.

This makes her bond with Buffy partly fake. I don't have an other 
word for it. This is also the reason why their relationship is 
strained after S7. I understand that's not great and that the 
oppertunity should have been created to deal with this early on in S7 
and without Kennedy and with the help of Giles and Xander; but for 
fanfiction I think it's a very good starting point.







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Buffy:  "I kinda love you."
                     'Choices'

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