Re: Re: Fic: Primeval (2/?)

[danspector@xxxxxxxxx]

Ida,

No, of course, you're not banned. These lists are far from my personal
playpen--it's quite all right to disagree with me, and I wouldn't ban
anyone for it.

What is not all right is flaming, which the second part of your post
comes dangerously close to. Do that to an author and I'll put you back
on moderated status, because I don't think anyone writes here to get
insulted.

For further comments, I went and got your post from the archives,
because I think this is best responded to in a cut-and-paste style

> This is gonna come across really really bad, so I think I am gonna
just go ahead and say it.

Actually, I've found through experience that if you're really ticked off
and think you might regret what you say, it might be better to wait
awhile. That's just my opinion, but it seems to be a good idea.
 
> I don't think you should be so bloody negative!...Even if it happens
to be -constructive- critism.  

Actually, I almost never criticize anything that qualifies as an
"author's vision", such as the writing style or level of sexual content.
I even stay away from getting on people for spelling mistakes, figuring
that they know where the spell-checker is if they want to use it.

I might have raised an eyebrow at a plot twist or two but I try extra
hard to make it clear that I'm surprised, rather than disapproving. Now
do I tend nitpick about facts and show canon and stuff? Sure, but I
hope no one takes it as meanspirited (after all, I'm usually joking
about my propensity towards this as I do it)--it's merely informational
and if someone doesn't like my doing so, all they have to do is tell me.

>Some people learn this way yes, some go screaming for the hills, never
to return, hence lost fic writers.  

Absolutely, some authors are more sensitive than others. I've made a
point NEVER to merely criticize a fic, always to praise it. And if I
drove any author off by being too critical, I'd be surprised, because
most of the lost ficcers I can think of (considers begging some to
return, but that's off-topic) are people I had nothing but praise
for...perhaps not enough. (I'm willing to grant the possibility that
I'm repressing, though.)

We had a big debate about having more in-depth (and thus severe) C & C
on this list last December, and I (then not a moderator) was firmly in
the "take care of the authors" camp. So I'd be quite surprised, and
apologetic, if I had done this to anyone in particular.

The only fic I can see where I had an extended critique was Mad Hamlet's
recent one. And since I happen to know that Mr. Hamlet is one of our
foremost exponents of critiques (he led the opposite position in last
December's debate) and since most of that wasn't about the fic per se,
but the ethics of Buffy's actions in "Graduation Day, Part 1", and since
he responded, made it plain he wasn't offended, and eventually won the
argument, I can't really construe myself as going over the line there.

(That said, if any author wants a retraction/apology from me, feel free
to ask. I'm here to encourage writing, not be an impediment. If I've
offended, let me know.)

>I seem to notice a very quiet list lately.  

Huh? Current post count for October seems to be averaging about 35 per
day, which would surpass September (893 posts) and October 2001 (926
posts) and would even give us a shot at the all-time record from May
(and that was a season-ending, Tara-dying month, remember) of 1056
posts.

Now, I admit I wish that we set records every month (membership keeps
expanding, so why not posts?) and I know that it's fics and not raw post
totals that matter the most (although we're doing much better than that
slow summer we had), but I'm surprised that the list is perceived as
"quiet". This list has the most activity of any of the 46 Buffy-related
lists I'm on, although I know that there are B/A and B/X lists that make
us look bad (and presumably B/S, although I wouldn't know).

Mind you, I'm always in favor of more fic and more feedback and more
fanarts and more chat and more everything--but I don't think we've
gotten to anywhere near a critical stage. In fact, I think we've
recovered nicely from a somewhat down summer. Go list! Yay us! Etc...

> I don't think I have ever read any review from you, in which you have
been 100% happy with the fic,

Hit the archive of the list on E-scribe (where you can search quite
easily for posts by author). You'll probably find dozens. But my main
concern is to write positive reviews, not **entirely positive** ones.

>or a review on the actual real life show for that matter 

Hey, if the eps stop sucking, I'll stop telling people that they suck.
I'm not happy about this, either, and I hope that the massive disclaimer
I put on my last review was ample warning that I'm not likely to be your
source for Season 6-7 joy. Read at your own risk.

OTOH, if you want someone to praise the so-called "lesser eps" of Season
2 (like "Some Assembly Required" or "Inca Mummy Girl" or "Bad Eggs" or
"Killed By Death") to the skies, well, then, I'm your man. Didn't you
catch my Ode to "Reptile Boy" in the "Help" review?

>(which btw were funny at first, but then even that got really sad real
quick *It was just a thing*)

Hmm, are you parodying my dislike of that oft-repeated line (which is
actually just "It was a thing", btw), or upset that I mentioned it?
Personally, I think trite, overused dialogue hardly does the show any
good, and I'm going express my irritation at it, and at "I get that", as
much as I like. I'm not the first person to point this out, either.

[snipping snotty paragraph about my putting my "negative" energy into
"politically correct" fics]

Actually, I think accusing people of being politically correct is a
cheap way to excuse one's own offensive behavior as "cool" and
"rebellious". And since I can't think of any time I've attempted to
enforce anything like political correctness, I'm baffled by this.

And, as you can probably guess, this is where I thought your post
crossed the line and just turned nasty.
 
> >I won't go too crazy, since I like to be nice to new authors<

> - "New" authors, sheesh, that's funny.

And again I go with "huh"? Electronis is new, and I've ranted at much
longer length in the past about "Wills", which I took care to point out
was a widespread habit among ficcers, and a longstanding gripe of mine.
Hardly a personal attack.

If you're actually teed off about this particular review, you might note
that I criticized nothing in the fic (where I praised her concept, her
execution, and her sex scene), just made a grammar note (wandering
tenses do get distracting and she was making an effort to stay
consistent elsewhere, so I didn't think she'd mind my noting that she
needed to fix that) and voiced a pet peeve. Certainly nothing as
antagonistic as, say, the post I'm currently responding to.

>I might think myself lucky I haven't been reviewed by you yet.

Yes, it's just pure chance and an obstreperous inbox. Impute nothing,
either positive or negative, from my not having reviewed your fics.

>I am sure you would just hate my fics. I know they are terrible,

I doubt it. They seem to be getting nice reviews.
 
>I came out of the shadows about 2 months ago. I don't even know how to
put together a short story, but I do it for other people to enjoy, which
I have been told, they do so far. The one person I started writing
fanfiction for really enjoys them, so that's all I really need for me to
continue writing and I will.

So, what's the problem? You're getting good feedback, I don't skewer
authors and as chance would have it, I haven't even read your fics.  
 
> I have enough negativity in my REAL LIFE world, I don't need to come
here to the one place that I come to relax just to end up feeling 
like crap all over again.

Okay. So don't get yourself all worked up about things that haven't
happened (like my attacking your work) and probably won't. She who
would be calm should take on the appearance of being calm, or however
that expression goes.

> <and secondly, there's that "Wills" thing, which is one of my pet
peeves< 

[snipping rant in response to this]

>Wills?, Buffy-erp?, what's the difference? 

First of all, people don't call Buffy "Buffy-erp", that was me cutting
the sentence short so I didn't mention the name people tend to call her,
which I don't like.

>Does it really matter?

Well, not in a "save the whales" kind of way, no. However it does
diminish my enjoyment of the fic when authors try and "put their mark"
on the characters by changing their names. For me, it distances the
characters from me, which is unfortunate, because one of the appeals of
fanfic is the preexisting connection between the reader and the
characters, the fact that everything Buffy says in the story is informed
by the 128 hours (counting "I Will Remember You" and "Sanctuary") of
time we've spent getting to know her. I'm not alone in this
complaint--I remember reading an essay where the author complained
about people calling Cordelia "Delia" or "Lia" or whatever.

My feeling is that if you're going to play on my attachment to the
characters, then you shouldn't be changing them to suit your whims.
That's why I've never liked "Willow Sue" fics (you know, shy Willow
realizes that Buffy and Xander are self-involved jerks, starts dressing
in leather and runs off with Angelus or EvilSpike, getting her revenge
on the popular kids which has nothing whatsoever to do with the author's
personal teenage issues, no sir, not at all..), or fics where the
characters get vamped, or general "we hate the core Scoobies" fics. (Of
which, IMO, there is a shocking amount.) Nomenclature is a minor point
of this complaint, I agree, but it still tends to grate, although, like
I say, it's just a pet peeve.

But I tend to speak out about "Wills" because it falls into the realm of
"false canon". It's so widespread that people (and I have actually
heard this) use it, because they think it's what happens on the show.
Which it isn't, so I tend to try and counter this misconception.  

(It's especially annoying because, as far as I understand, the habit of
nicknaming your friends by dropping the last syllable and adding an "s"
is a British thing, and Buffy and Willow aren't. At least, I've never
heard an American do this. If Ethan calls Giles "Rupes", that's fine
with me. If he calls him "G-dog", that's not, unless it's obvious that
he's mocking American slang. Character voicing is one of the things
that draws me into fics and I don't feel that it's petty of me to try
and avoid pitfalls on this issue, especially since virtually every
author will admit that they try and make the characters sound like their
counterparts on the show.)

Same thing for when people want to call Buffy "Elizabeth" which is NOT
her name, and annoys me just as much (although there's no cultural issue
involved there, obviously).

But I always make it clear that these are **ongoing** complaints, and
not anything I hold against any particular fic, as far as my response
goes. It's just that whenever I read "Wills" or "Elizabeth", something
inside me groans, which I'm pretty sure is not what the ficcer was
aiming for. So, I speak out, even if I know I'm tilting at windmills on
this issue.

> (See, I made it through that without cursing at all. Yay, me.)

Hee! Cute parody! (Although "bloody" and "crap" are cutting it close,
though.)
 
> Ida
 
> who's at least grateful that you gave a false sense of security for
pretending to like the fic just a little, no, definately not putting
that idea in anyone's mind :)

OTOH, although this is also clever parody (and thus another reason why I
doubt that your fics suck), it's also unnecessarily snarky. I do not
"pretend" to like fics--any compliments I give are sincere, and I'm a
little offended at your statement.

Let's wait until we actually have a conflict until we take to fighting,
okay?

Peace,

Dan