Re: when did it all begin?

["ebailey140" <ebailey140@xxxxxxx>]

--- In buffywantswillow@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "zorro625"
<epostadressami@h...> wrote:
> --- In buffywantswillow@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "ebailey140" <ebailey140@a...
> > wrote:
> > --- In buffywantswillow@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "zorro625"
> > <epostadressami@h...> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > > > Y'know, I've never really gotten how it's OK for Xander to 
> be
> > > > > > involved with a woman over 1000, and Buffy to date guys past
> > > > > the
> > > > > > century mark, but not someone in his 40s. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > For me it's not so much the "incest" idea. It's the
> > > > > authority-figure issue.
> > > > 
> > > > When did she ever see him as an authority figure?  :)
> > > > 
> > > > Mentor figure, sure.
> > > > 
> > > > E
> > > 
> > > To put in my 2 cents here, Giles was a authority figure for buffy 
> in 
> > > the first 2, possibly 3 seasons. Most in season 1, diminishing 
> from 
> > > thereon out. She didnt want to be the slayer, she didnt want to be 
> > > training to be the slayer, she certainly didnt want to patrolling 
> > > every night and ruining her social life and having her mother mad 
> at 
> > > her all the time.  Yet she did it, and that was mainly due to 
> Giles 
> > > pushing her. If that doesnt cover as a authorithy figure, then i 
> dont 
> > > know what does. Buffy never did act all respectful towards 
> him(like 
> > > Kendra did), but nonetheless, she followed his orders, did what he 
> > > said(albeit grudgeingly).  I think thats what makes people(me 
> > > included) go ick at that relationship aswell. 
> > 
> > She followed orders?  When?  She made decisions to help people, but
> > those were decisions she made on her own.  She didn't go after the
> > vamp that took Willow to the crypt because Giles ordered her to, but
> > because there was this vamp taking Willow to a crypt.  Giles figured
> > out she wasn't going to take an order right after their first
> > conversation.  
> > 
> > Having a sense of responsibility and letting a mentor teach and help
> > isn't following orders or being subservient.  If anything, she 
> ordered
> > him around.  "Get your books, look stuff up".
>
> Did we watch the same show? 

She wasn't Kendra-like in the show I saw.  

> Describing Buffy and Giles relationships 
> this simply is like saying that Joyce was simply the person that fed 
> and bought Buffy new clothes.  Sure, Buffy didnt always follow Giles's 
> orders(and yes, he did give her orders often enough) but that doesnt 
> mean that Buffy was the boss and Giles was merely a mentor who teached 
> her.   When Buffy wants out of her duties, she argues, wheedles, 
> whines, and lies(shes a teenager afterall) but i cant remember a 
> single instance where she went "Get your books, look stuff up" Maybe 
> you can back up that claim with an episode?(im not asking for the 
> exact quote, simply a episode where Buffy is the one ordering Giles 
> around, instead of the other way around in the first seasons) 

I don't remember the exact episode, but after she tells him that (It's
one of those where the group thinks she's jumping to conclusions about
something when she's, as usual, right).  Later, he's reasearching, and
they ask what he's doing, and he replies that he got his books, and is
"looking stuff up".

Again, it's her own sense of responsibility that led her to fighting
the vamps, not anyone ordering her to.  The fact that she didn't take
orders was brought up throughout the series.  From What's My Line...

Kendra:  Den he is alright. We can return to your Watcher for our 
orders.

Buffy:  (lets go of Willy) I don't take orders. I do things my way.

And from Bad Girls...

Wesley:  (steps back to his box) Oh, no, not at all. Nonetheless, we may 
as well keep it from them. Buffy, you will go to the Gleaves family 
crypt tonight and fetch the amulet. (reaches in)

Buffy:  I will?

Wesley:  (pauses) Are you not used to being given orders?

Buffy:  Whenever Giles sends me on a mission, he always says 'please'. 
And afterwards I get a cookie.

She grins at Giles, who smiles back modestly.

Giles is the Merlin figure on the show, the wise mentor teaching and
guiding the hero.  Merlin never gave Arthur orders.   
> As for the spesific incident you are referring to, yes, she is going 
> after Willow because she wants to, and not because Giles says so. 
> Makes sense, if you consider the fact that they met the previous day. 
> At that point, he is still just a creepy librarian that tries to make 
> her hunt vamps, whitch she is REALLY not interested in doing.  She got 
> kicked out of her last school for it, had to move, and depending on if 
> you believe that s6 rubbish, spent the summer in an insane asylum for 
> it. Relationships do take a bit of time to develop you know. But once 
> she decides that she cant run from being a slayer, and accepts that 
> she is the chosen one, she also accepts Giles as her watcher.  I'd 
> agree with that in the first episodes there is not too much 
> Giles/Buffy interaction, but once Hank stops acting like a father 
> figure, Giles takes over that role.

Something of a father figure, yes, but not her father, in the same way
Willow was like a sister to her, but wasn't her sister.  And, again, I
think we, in this ship, should avoid playing the "It's like incest!"
card, because that's the exact term used by people when they bash B/W.  

And, since how the actors played scenes is the basis for a lot of the
unconventional ships (such as B/W), that has to be taken into
consideration.  ASH, as any B/G shipper can tell you, never looked at
Sarah/Buffy the way a father looks at a daughter.  

E



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Willow: "It's a good fight, Buffy, and I want in."
Buffy:  "I kinda love you."
                     'Choices'

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