Re: when did it all begin?

["ebailey140" <ebailey140@xxxxxxx>]

--- In buffywantswillow@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Andy Stoffel <see2go4me@y...>
wrote:
> --- ebailey140 <ebailey140@a...> wrote:
>
> > --- In buffywantswillow@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Andy Stoffel
> > <see2go4me@y...>
> > wrote:
> > > 
> > > --- Rainne <chanceofrainne@c...> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > > From: Andy Stoffel 
> > > > > > Buffy/Giles  - icick
> > >  
> > > > 
> > > > What incest idea?  He's not her father.  She has a father.
>
> > > > His name is Hank.
> > > 
> > > In the show he's ostensibly the "father figure"...
> > 
> > And Buffy's Willow's sister figure. 
>
> You've said that before. What are you basing that on?
> Is there something that I'm missing here? 

That's how Buffy and Willow were written in canon.  It wasn't written
as a romantic thing.  Notice, we stopped having the classic B/W
moments once Dawn, as an actual sister, was introduced.  

And that's the arguement you run into with non-B/W people any time you
suggest that Willow just might have had a bit of a crush, or was
physically attracted to, Buffy.  "Willow would never think of, or even
notice, Buffy that way!  Buffy's like a sister to her!  It'd be
incestual!"
> If we start talking archetypes the water gets even murkier.
>
> These are complex characters and their relationships are
> depicted in complex ways. 
>
> Giles is the mentor, father-figure, authority figure, male role
> model, etc.  for the Scoobies. 
>
> It doesn't matter that they don't always treat him that way.
> That is his "role" in this take on 'the hero's journey'. He
> isn't on the same relationship 'level' as they are. 
>
> If you plan on pairing him with any of them, Buffy especially,
> you have to find some way to make them more equal. There are
> ways to do it (One clever story has Buffy accidentally going
> back in time and meeting him during his "Ripper" period. Because
> they are equal at some point it is possible to avoid 'father
> issues')
>
> You have to deal with the issues, otherwise it's just pointless
> PWP. And potentially boring.

And, the series already did.  As Buffy got older, she matured.  The
faculty member aspect was gone after S3.  She developed into not only
his equal, but Spike thought she'd surpassed him, by the end.  Their
relationship in the new Council would be as equals.

E



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Willow: "It's a good fight, Buffy, and I want in."
Buffy:  "I kinda love you."
                     'Choices'

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